I like your format, but completely agree with your conclusions. I don't care much about Bargnani's offense because that's his area of strength, even if it's flawed (inability to draw fouls, inability to create for himself etc). On defense in the preseason, Bargnani has shown no improvements. He's constantly out of position, late on rotations and turning his back to the ball. After four full seasons, he's simply not getting it. It's completely unacceptable. There's no one I would give four full seasons of bad team defense and then give ANOTHER season.

And your assertion that Bargnani would be better at the four makes no sense. You admit that he's actually a good post defender, but if he were to move to PF, he'd get to play less post defense. He's a poor perimeter defender, and that's what he'd play more of.

In fact, Bargnani has been defending more PFs during the preseason, which has made him look worse. Plus, on offense, he's not able to beat his man off the dribble because he usually has quicker players on him. During his big game against Phoenix, 5 of 7 field goals were assisted, showing how much help he needs to score.

I meant to say “completely DISagree with your conclusions.” The “dis” is kind of important, wouldn't you say?

I think you are getting too caught up in positions. The author did mention that he is guarding centers defensively and on offense playing more of a traditional four role. I think that is the right way to maximize his strengths. He plays five on d and four on offense.

I really like the use of the video in this post. It just goes to show you that Bargs is good at taking orders (going back on d to prevent leak outs) and is not at all focused on getting numbers to boost his rebounding totals.

Tim, thanks for the comment, but I think you totally miss what I am trying to say here. I am not saying that Bargnani is better at the 4. What I am saying is the Raptors seem to use him as a stretch 4, and that suits his strengths much better. On defense, Bargnani tends to covers opposing 5s, because he is a strong post defender.

Also, once his shot starts to fall, you will see a few more unassisted baskets from him. Once he returns to being a shooting threat, defenders will close out hard on him, and he can drive off of that (we saw a clip of that in the post).

I like your format, but completely agree with your conclusions. I don’t care much about Bargnani’s offense because that’s his area of strength, even if it’s flawed (inability to draw fouls, inability to create for himself etc). On defense in the preseason, Bargnani has shown no improvements. He’s constantly out of position, late on rotations and turning his back to the ball. After four full seasons, he’s simply not getting it. It’s completely unacceptable. There’s no one I would give four full seasons of bad team defense and then give ANOTHER season.

And your assertion that Bargnani would be better at the four makes no sense. You admit that he’s actually a good post defender, but if he were to move to PF, he’d get to play less post defense. He’s a poor perimeter defender, and that’s what he’d play more of.

In fact, Bargnani has been defending more PFs during the preseason, which has made him look worse. Plus, on offense, he’s not able to beat his man off the dribble because he usually has quicker players on him. During his big game against Phoenix, 5 of 7 field goals were assisted, showing how much help he needs to score.

I meant to say “completely DISagree with your conclusions.” The “dis” is kind of important, wouldn’t you say?

I actually think Bargnani has looked better defensively this preseason. His PnR defense looks better, his rotations look better, and his transition D (which has always been horrific) hasn't even been a red flag. The PDSS data seems to agree as well. It's too bad he's been nothing short of atrocious on offense and non existent on the glass.

In fact, the whole team has looked notably more aggressive defensively. Obviously it's preseason which means next to nothing.

I think you are getting too caught up in positions. The author did mention that he is guarding centers defensively and on offense playing more of a traditional four role. I think that is the right way to maximize his strengths. He plays five on d and four on offense.

I really like the use of the video in this post. It just goes to show you that Bargs is good at taking orders (going back on d to prevent leak outs) and is not at all focused on getting numbers to boost his rebounding totals.

Tim, thanks for the comment, but I think you totally miss what I am trying to say here. I am not saying that Bargnani is better at the 4. What I am saying is the Raptors seem to use him as a stretch 4, and that suits his strengths much better. On defense, Bargnani tends to covers opposing 5s, because he is a strong post defender.

Also, once his shot starts to fall, you will see a few more unassisted baskets from him. Once he returns to being a shooting threat, defenders will close out hard on him, and he can drive off of that (we saw a clip of that in the post).

I actually think Bargnani has looked better defensively this preseason. His PnR defense looks better, his rotations look better, and his transition D (which has always been horrific) hasn’t even been a red flag. The PDSS data seems to agree as well. It’s too bad he’s been nothing short of atrocious on offense and non existent on the glass.

In fact, the whole team has looked notably more aggressive defensively. Obviously it’s preseason which means next to nothing.

Tim,

I understand that you join the ranks of internet Bargnani haters, you criticize an individual based solely on the fact that he does not do what you want him to do. Without correctly understand his strengths and weaknesses. Yes, Bars is an Italian and yes he was picked no. 1, which dumbfounds everyone in the NBA. But, please understand this, he is a PF, originally a SF in a Center's body. His game, very similar to that of Channining Frye, Mehmet, Dirk etc. All of which are good players in their own right. Bargs, yes does need the ball given to him, but no C or PF can create their own shot. Maybe Duncan or Gasol, but than if we had either, we wouldn't be having this dumb conversation right now.

Next, you are an idiot, he gets blocks, collects 4-5 rebounds, and stifles opposing players. Yes before he was not as good, but has been getting significantly better through the years. He's not Dwight Howard and Dwight Howard isn't Bargnani. Both of strengths and weaknesses. Dwight needs to be fed the ball, if he gets pushed out at least 14 feet, his success rate dips. If bargs was pushed to outside the ACC, he is still in range.

So with all this said aside, yes were “stuck to him”, who cares, he does his thing, so really STFU.

Thanks,

Zig

Tim,

I understand that you join the ranks of internet Bargnani haters, you criticize an individual based solely on the fact that he does not do what you want him to do. Without correctly understand his strengths and weaknesses. Yes, Bars is an Italian and yes he was picked no. 1, which dumbfounds everyone in the NBA. But, please understand this, he is a PF, originally a SF in a Center’s body. His game, very similar to that of Channining Frye, Mehmet, Dirk etc. All of which are good players in their own right. Bargs, yes does need the ball given to him, but no C or PF can create their own shot. Maybe Duncan or Gasol, but than if we had either, we wouldn’t be having this dumb conversation right now.

Next, you are an idiot, he gets blocks, collects 4-5 rebounds, and stifles opposing players. Yes before he was not as good, but has been getting significantly better through the years. He’s not Dwight Howard and Dwight Howard isn’t Bargnani. Both of strengths and weaknesses. Dwight needs to be fed the ball, if he gets pushed out at least 14 feet, his success rate dips. If bargs was pushed to outside the ACC, he is still in range.

So with all this said aside, yes were “stuck to him”, who cares, he does his thing, so really STFU.

Thanks,

Zig

wow.

bargs is criticized because he does poorly the fundamental things that are important for a centre (or PF, if you want to split hairs) to do in order for any TEAM to be successful. y'see, there is a difference between being a fan of a player & a fan of a team. fans of players want the player to be successful, so they can puff out their chests & brag about 'their guy.' fans of teams want the players on that team to do the things that enable success from a team perspective. so, bargs 'haters' don't necessarily hate him, or think he's unskilled…they simply view his deficiencies as being damaging to the team, to the point that his offensive abilities don't even begin to make up for it.

as for him (bargs) being picked #1 overall…it didn't really dumbfound anyone. what is dumbfounding is how he has – to this point – squandered every opportunity he's had to become a legit threat in this league. his critics are hard on him because he has the talent & ability to be successful in all aspects of the game, but for whatever reason, chooses to remain a disinterested bystander when it comes to rebounding & D.

further – if he's truly a 'SF in a Center's body,' then how can it also be argued that his inability to create his own shot isn't a big deal? i mean, isn't that supposed to be some big advantage of his over his 4/5 brethren?

ah, the classic ramblings of a classic bargs fanboy. tell me…how's his jock taste? is it reminiscent of vegetable lasagna?

actually, what is being missed is that in order for bargs to be successful, the entire dynamic of the team has to change to suit his (limited) skill-set.

for argument's sake, let's agree that on offense, he's more akin to a stretch-4 (i.e. an antawn jamison with slightly better range, if you will). that's fine. now…who's on the floor with him in terms of frontcourt players? looks like it'll be either evans (ugh) or amir starting at the '4.' so, offensively, neither of those guys is going to draw attention from the D. how, exactly, is bargs getting open for his shots? a solid % of his looks came due to slow rotations off bosh doubles…with no teammates drawing doubles, i find it hard to believe the quality of his looks will improve.

now, if bargs is settled in his comfort zone on the perimeter, and either evans or johnson are on the floor with him, the opposition can use their 4 to cover bargs, and leave their slower, bigger 5 in the paint area to cover either evans or amir, which makes it more difficult to do the one thing they do at an above-average rate – rebound. further, by having the opponent's 4 cover bargs, he loses whatever quickness advantage he'd have over the opponent's 5, and doesn't really gain an advantage in his ability to shoot over the top of most 4's.

defensively, it's no better. his ONLY above-average skill defensively is one-on-one in the post against traditional 5's. if he's playing with reggie/amir, nothing changes; but if a more traditional centre (think dampier, since he's 'available'…gag me) is playing with him, and barg's is tasked to check an opponent's 4…well, if you thought he was a disaster before, just wait.

essentially, what you're advocating could work…if they subbed offense for defense every possession.

wow.

bargs is criticized because he does poorly the fundamental things that are important for a centre (or PF, if you want to split hairs) to do in order for any TEAM to be successful. y’see, there is a difference between being a fan of a player & a fan of a team. fans of players want the player to be successful, so they can puff out their chests & brag about ‘their guy.’ fans of teams want the players on that team to do the things that enable success from a team perspective. so, bargs ‘haters’ don’t necessarily hate him, or think he’s unskilled…they simply view his deficiencies as being damaging to the team, to the point that his offensive abilities don’t even begin to make up for it.

as for him (bargs) being picked #1 overall…it didn’t really dumbfound anyone. what is dumbfounding is how he has – to this point – squandered every opportunity he’s had to become a legit threat in this league. his critics are hard on him because he has the talent & ability to be successful in all aspects of the game, but for whatever reason, chooses to remain a disinterested bystander when it comes to rebounding & D.

further – if he’s truly a ‘SF in a Center’s body,’ then how can it also be argued that his inability to create his own shot isn’t a big deal? i mean, isn’t that supposed to be some big advantage of his over his 4/5 brethren?

ah, the classic ramblings of a classic bargs fanboy. tell me…how’s his jock taste? is it reminiscent of vegetable lasagna?

actually, what is being missed is that in order for bargs to be successful, the entire dynamic of the team has to change to suit his (limited) skill-set.

for argument’s sake, let’s agree that on offense, he’s more akin to a stretch-4 (i.e. an antawn jamison with slightly better range, if you will). that’s fine. now…who’s on the floor with him in terms of frontcourt players? looks like it’ll be either evans (ugh) or amir starting at the ’4.’ so, offensively, neither of those guys is going to draw attention from the D. how, exactly, is bargs getting open for his shots? a solid % of his looks came due to slow rotations off bosh doubles…with no teammates drawing doubles, i find it hard to believe the quality of his looks will improve.

now, if bargs is settled in his comfort zone on the perimeter, and either evans or johnson are on the floor with him, the opposition can use their 4 to cover bargs, and leave their slower, bigger 5 in the paint area to cover either evans or amir, which makes it more difficult to do the one thing they do at an above-average rate – rebound. further, by having the opponent’s 4 cover bargs, he loses whatever quickness advantage he’d have over the opponent’s 5, and doesn’t really gain an advantage in his ability to shoot over the top of most 4′s.

defensively, it’s no better. his ONLY above-average skill defensively is one-on-one in the post against traditional 5′s. if he’s playing with reggie/amir, nothing changes; but if a more traditional centre (think dampier, since he’s ‘available’…gag me) is playing with him, and barg’s is tasked to check an opponent’s 4…well, if you thought he was a disaster before, just wait.

essentially, what you’re advocating could work…if they subbed offense for defense every possession.

I think you need to learn that there's a difference between “reasonable critique” and “hate.” Tim raises cogent points that could spark an interesting conversation between those who value his strengths and those who focus more on his weaknesses. Both perspectives are worth hearing. Resorting to ad hominem attacks only weakens any case that you'd care to make.

Barg's shooting is far from perfect in comparison to true shooters like Ray Allen, or even Dirk, but it's too late now to change. You can see when he shoots his arms and legs are bow out like a crab. That means his form isn't compact, won't get his shot off quickly, and exert a lot of excess energy when he's shooting.

He can get away with it because he plays center and because he plays outside, opposing center will hesitate to close out at him especially when he's at the 3 pt line. That's why when he catches the ball he always tries to fake first because he knows if he tries to get his shot off right away he'll get blocked because his release is so slow.

For now, he can get away with that because he's a 7fter, but if he wants to take it to the next level on the offensive end he must improve his shooting form… and that means getting your feet set and ready to shoot at any time, his arms pack tightly together to get that quick release and high arc, and most importantly getting into that form asap once he catches the ball.

On the catch and attack video… due to a mistake on the defense he had an open look at the high post for 1 second. Instead he op to drive baseline to the basket and try to draw a foul. That to he shows that he has no confidence in his shot and he can't really catch and shoot if he just moved into his position. His feet needs to be completely set to get his shot off. Ask yourself honestly, if Bosh was in the same position, would he knock that jumper or drive to the basket?

On watching that rebound video. Yes he got the rebound, but he was actually in a bad position. He was too close to the basket and with Robin Lopaz comes in he was pushed right under the basket. Instead what he should have done is be 3 ft away from the basket on his side and be in box out position so that the opposing player won't have a chance to get the rebound if it bounce the other way.

In regards to help defense… it just seems like he's trying to be 2 places at once… guarding the guy penetrating as well as his man. Only a more explosive big man can do that. He can (and should) still help by presenting himself for the drive and trust his team rotate to cover his man.

I think you need to learn that there’s a difference between “reasonable critique” and “hate.” Tim raises cogent points that could spark an interesting conversation between those who value his strengths and those who focus more on his weaknesses. Both perspectives are worth hearing. Resorting to ad hominem attacks only weakens any case that you’d care to make.

Barg’s shooting is far from perfect in comparison to true shooters like Ray Allen, or even Dirk, but it’s too late now to change. You can see when he shoots his arms and legs are bow out like a crab. That means his form isn’t compact, won’t get his shot off quickly, and exert a lot of excess energy when he’s shooting.

He can get away with it because he plays center and because he plays outside, opposing center will hesitate to close out at him especially when he’s at the 3 pt line. That’s why when he catches the ball he always tries to fake first because he knows if he tries to get his shot off right away he’ll get blocked because his release is so slow.

For now, he can get away with that because he’s a 7fter, but if he wants to take it to the next level on the offensive end he must improve his shooting form… and that means getting your feet set and ready to shoot at any time, his arms pack tightly together to get that quick release and high arc, and most importantly getting into that form asap once he catches the ball.

On the catch and attack video… due to a mistake on the defense he had an open look at the high post for 1 second. Instead he op to drive baseline to the basket and try to draw a foul. That to he shows that he has no confidence in his shot and he can’t really catch and shoot if he just moved into his position. His feet needs to be completely set to get his shot off. Ask yourself honestly, if Bosh was in the same position, would he knock that jumper or drive to the basket?

On watching that rebound video. Yes he got the rebound, but he was actually in a bad position. He was too close to the basket and with Robin Lopaz comes in he was pushed right under the basket. Instead what he should have done is be 3 ft away from the basket on his side and be in box out position so that the opposing player won’t have a chance to get the rebound if it bounce the other way.

In regards to help defense… it just seems like he’s trying to be 2 places at once… guarding the guy penetrating as well as his man. Only a more explosive big man can do that. He can (and should) still help by presenting himself for the drive and trust his team rotate to cover his man.

Love your breakdowns, very compelling. I get pretty sick of people using every stat in the book to justify their arguments when you can tell everything you need to know by simply watching the games.

Bargs is showing signs of life on defense as your post illustrates, however he started strong last year as well only to fall the fugg off the Earth before the ASG. His post presence on either end was totally absent, especially in games Bosh missed. What will show true improvement (dare I say “hope”?) is if he can sustain this effort for a season. Game in, game out he can be wildly inconsistent and still allows his offense to dictate the rest of his game.

Love your breakdowns, very compelling. I get pretty sick of people using every stat in the book to justify their arguments when you can tell everything you need to know by simply watching the games.

Bargs is showing signs of life on defense as your post illustrates, however he started strong last year as well only to fall the fugg off the Earth before the ASG. His post presence on either end was totally absent, especially in games Bosh missed. What will show true improvement (dare I say “hope”?) is if he can sustain this effort for a season. Game in, game out he can be wildly inconsistent and still allows his offense to dictate the rest of his game.

Love your breakdowns, very compelling. I get pretty sick of people using every stat in the book to justify their arguments when you can tell everything you need to know by simply watching the games.

Bargs is showing signs of life on defense as your post illustrates, however he started strong last year as well only to fall the fugg off the Earth before the ASG. His post presence on either end was totally absent, especially in games Bosh missed. What will show true improvement (dare I say “hope”?) is if he can sustain this effort for a season. Game in, game out he can be wildly inconsistent and still allows his offense to dictate the rest of his game.

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