NBA Player Skill Rankings – Post Play | NBA Playbook

NBA Player Skill Rankings – Post Play

We are in the dog days of summer here and with the lockout looking like it is far from being resolved, we are starting to see more and more player rankings pop up at various web sites.  I thought I would try my hand at these rankings, but instead of ranking by position or anything like that, I thought it would be interesting to look at a specific skill and rank players that way using a combination of numbers, game tape, and my own opinion.

Being able to go to the block, turn your back to your defender, and being able to have success in the post is a vital skill to have in the NBA.  Being able to score on the block creates more opportunities to score, and if you are good enough, it makes it easier to create (you don’t have to create out of isolation sets up top, for instance).  In addition, being able to score in the post makes you a threat and forces defenses to react accordingly, and allows you to create opportunities for your teammates.

NOTE:  This skill ranking encompasses post play in it’s entirety, from moves, to ability to handle double teams, and everything else involved.

1. Dirk Nowitzki

When you look at the top players posting up in terms of points per possessions (with at least 50 post up possessions), Dirk Nowitzki is the player who shows up at the top of the list.  On the block, Nowitzki scores on over half of his post possessions (58.1% to be exact), getting to the free throw line 16.3% of the time, while only turning it over 6.7% of the time.

What’s interesting about Nowitzki and his post game is that he isn’t a guy who faces up a ton (which is something you would expect from a shooter with his size).  Nowitzki’s go to move is turning over his right shoulder while making a move off of the dribble on both sides of the court, though it is more prevalent on the left block (63.5% on the left block/48.1% on the right block).  Despite that, when Nowitzki does face up (17.6% on the left/31.9% on the right), he is extremely dangerous because his height allows him to simply shoot it over the defense.  Going back to his go to move, what makes Nowitzki so dangerous is that he has that quick spinning unorthodox shot that he can knock down from distance.  This means that Nowitzki doesn’t need fantastic positioning.  He just needs to get to a spot he is comfortable at (15 feet or so), and he is strong enough to back a defender to that spot.

That ability to back down his man is something that he has developed since that loss to the Warriors in the playoffs.  Another skill that was developed is his ability to pass out of double teams.  This past season, Nowitzki turned it over just 4.4% of the time when passing out of double teams, allowing his teammates to post a eFG% of 59.1%.

The reason why I have Nowitzki at the top of this list is because he is highly skilled at a lot of aspects you need to be a good post player (that turnaround jumper is otherworldly – he does a fantastic job of using his left foot to create then quickly rocking back, to create even more distance), while being good enough/better than average at the other ones (getting teammates involved/handling double teams).

2. Tim Duncan

Despite taking a few steps backwards in terms of post skill Tim Duncan, in my opinion, is still the 2nd best post player in the NBA (which tells you how good he was at his peak.  Even though coach Gregg Popovich scaled back the offense and used Duncan less (and the corner three more), Duncan still got most of his possessions (33.3% to be exact) on the block.

This past season, Duncan was at his best on the left block, where he used 57.3% of his post up possessions and scored on over half of his possessions (50.8%).  The reason why Duncan is still on the top of this list is the variety of moves that he makes.  On the left block specifically, Duncan makes a move over his left shoulder 25.8% of the time.  He turns his right shoulder 36.1% of the time and he faces up his man 33% of the time.  All of these are moves he is very good at, so it is tough for defenses to overplay him (For example, if a player is weak going to his right shoulder, you’d force him that way).  Combine that with the fact he doesn’t turn it over in the post (13 turnovers in 344 post up possessions) and you have an incredible post threat.

3. Carmelo Anthony

I’ve said for the longest time that I think Carmelo Anthony is the best non-big on the block, and that’s why I got him on the list at number three.  Anthony’s best assets on the block is his size and his footwork.  At his size, just about any defender that tries to defend him is at a size disadvantage, giving Anthony the edge on the block from the start.  Then you combine the fantastic footwork that allows him to get to the rim and truly take advantage of his size and you have a player who is going to have success on the block.

Anthony is similar to Duncan in that he does his best work on the left block (1.057 PPP with the Nuggets – Top 10% among all NBA players) and he is extremely hard to overplay.  In addition to his footwork allowing him to get to the rim when his defender is on his back, his size creates a lot of problems.  Specifically when it comes to drawing fouls.  Anthony got himself to the free throw line 26.6% of the time he posted up when he was the Nuggets.  Essentially, one in four post up possessions, Anthony was going to the line and shooting free throws.  That’s an incredibly high rate.  Finally, if you try to front Anthony and keep him from making the catch, he does a great job of pinning his defender high, making himself available for the lob, then quickly converting

4. Nene

Nene is the second Denver Nugget (though the only current Nugget) to make this list and he’s the first (and only) true center to make the list.  When looking at Nene’s number, you see how complete his post up game is and that is why he is on this list.  Overall, Nene posted a PPP of 1.123 (which was good for the top 7% among all NBA players)  and what makes him so dangerous in my opinion is that he can (and has) have success on both blocks.  Nene posted up on the left block 46.6% of the time and the right block 41.5% of the time, posting a top 15% PPP (among all NBA players) from each side.  Nene has a nice shooting touch and that allows him to be able to face up and be a threat to knock down a jumper.  In addition to that, Nene is quicker than you’d expect a man of his size to be.  That size though is his greatest advantage on the block.  It’s what allows him to establish fantastic position every time he posts up, and once he gets the ball he is able to back down him man to the rim, getting to spots where he can finish with either hand (another thing that Nene does well).

In addition to creating for himself, Nene also does a great job of setting up his teammates when the defense commits to him.  When Nene kicks the ball out of a double team, his teammates are shooting 59% and posting an eFG% of 71.7%.  He does all of this while just turning it over 4.4% of the time when kicking it out.  Nene is almost inviting the double team, waiting until the last possible second before kicking it out to an open teammate:

5. LeBron James

This might be a shock of a pick, especially considering you hear everybody and their mother saying that LeBron James needs to develop a post game.  I tend to disagree with those people (though if you want to argue that he doesn’t do it enough, I’m with you).  If that’s the case, LeBron James is going to be a scary player when he learns how to post people up, because right now he’s posting a PPP of 1.091 (among the top 9% of all NBA players) while getting to the line 16.2% of of the time and only turning it over 6.5% of the time.  Like Carmelo Anthony, James biggest advantage on the block is that he is basically stronger than anyone trying to defend him.  Like Anthony’s former teammate Nene, James is strong on either block, making him incredibly hard to defend.  James just does a good job of using his size well.  While he doesn’t have this great wealth of moves, a guy his size doesn’t need that.  He is able to back down his man and he has a drop step move, which he uses when his defender starts pushing off of him too hard.  That’s all he needs.

On the left block, James posts a PPP of 1.011 (top 15% of all NBA players) and on the right block, James posts a PPP of 1.317 (top 4% of all NBA players).  James’ size advantage tends to draw double teams, and when those doubles come, James is an accurate and willing passer.  Out of the 75 kick outs when doubles came, James turned it over just 4 times.  The completeness of his post game (being able to post on both blocks and still being an accurate passer) is why I have him in the top 5:

Honorable Mention

I have a hunch that I am not going to be a fan of Lakers’ fans after this post for a little while, for leaving off two of their players, Pau Gasol and Kobe Bryant, who are in my own personal top 10, but just don’t crack the top 5.  With Gasol, while he does great work with the basketball, he doesn’t do a great job of establishing position.  That inability of establishing position tends to hurt him a bit and and make him a tad too inconsistant in the post to crack the top five.

Kobe Bryant on the other hand was a much tougher decision.  The final spot came down to LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, and in my opinion I had to give James the edge.  Because I feel like this is going to be a talking point, I decided to break down my decision (and keep in mind, I’m not saying LeBron is the best post player while Bryant is the worst, saying there is a slim gap between James and Bryant and this point in these players respective careers).  While Bryant’s post game is prettier than LeBron’s bullying style, I just can’t overlook the efficiency from LeBron on both blocks.  Bryant is slightly more efficient as James on the left block (1.048 PPP vs. 1.011), but on the right block the drop off is pretty significant (1.024 PPP vs. 1.317 PPP).  In addition LeBron James draws twice as many fouls in the post and turns it over less (9.7% TOs vs. 6.5% TOs).  With everything else being just about equal, James gets the edge in my mind.

Also left off a few true centers, in Brook Lopez and Dwight Howard.  Again, these two would probably crack the top 10, but don’t fit in the top 5.  Lopez, while displaying a great array of post moves is awful when defenses send double teams at him.  With Howard, I had to drop him because of his foul shooting.  So many of his post opportunities end in fouls, that the fact he can’t shoot foul shots well really hurt his efficiency in the post.

A few other guys that pop into my head are power forwards Amar’e Stoudemire, Lamar Odom, and LaMarcus Aldridge.  I’m probably missing a few more great post players as well, this was definitely a tougher list to complete than the pick and roll skill ranking.

05
Aug 2011
POSTED BY Sebastian Pruiti
DISCUSSION 44 Comments
TAGS

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_GN26OTNWY7BNR26QTQSQ2S5Q2Y Jaffe

    question about melo, some of the plays look like wing isos whats the difference?

  • Nghiem

    Great article, Sebastian. I’m always pondering who the best post player in the league is and wasn’t thinking outside the box enough. After checking out your list, though, I absolutely agree with your picks. I was pleasantly surprised because I was restricting myself to 4′s and 5′s but with players like Melo and LBJ, their versatility allows them to take advantage of their defenders. Forgot about Nene too, what an underrated player.

    I’m curious as to your take on Al Jefferson because I’ve always thought he was a fantastic (I could be mixing fantastic with crafty/fun to watch) player in the post. Watching him, I was always absorbed by his array of post moves, his footwork and that nasty pump fake of his. He’s also got a fairly decent mid-range, too. I guess the knock could be his relative inability to pass out of the post (he’s been kind of a black hole there but I don’t blame the guy, MN didn’t have much and he’s still getting acclimated to Utah). Any chance you could check out his numbers?

  • Guyshafran

    No respect for Z-Bo after an amazing display of unstoppable post moves all through the playoffs against tough guys like Ibaka and Duncan

  • Anonymous

    Very thoughtful analysis.
    Wish ‘Melo would pass more. I think a couple of your clips showed him shooting against pretty good defense when a pass to an open three was available.
    With Nene, what you call size, I would call strength. Sheer muscle establishing position, and against some big guys.

  • Hot Shot Hamish

    Um – LUIS SCOLA!?

  • http://www.operationsports.com/forums/pro-basketball/414633-lebron-james-thread-1026.html#post2042691914 The LeBron James Thread – Page 1026 – Operation Sports Forums

    [...] ^^ Can't say they didn't fit together well ^^ But has anyone saw this article on NBAPLAYBOOK? http://nbaplaybook.com/2011/08/05/nb…ay/#more-15889 I know most of you might throw up when you see who number 5 is on post play skills lol. (Even I'm [...]

  • animal

    Yea, Melo and LBJ IMO don’t belong on this list. If you include those guys, might as well include miller and billups. Post-ups and ISOs (closer to the basket) are different. Perhaps, its better to separate back to the basket players…

  • Devastator

    List FAIL!!! EPIC FAIL!!!

    This is why statistical analysis needs certification or something…
    How the hell do you have a list without Dwight Howard, Blake Griffin, Kevin Love, Al Jefferson etc on top post players. I don’t know what metrics you used but it just seems off/wrong. 

  • Fazzettino

    C’mon Sebastian, you’re so much better than this.
    LeBron? Of course he’s efficient, he posts up only against huge mismatches.
    Are you telling us that Richard Jefferson is a better 3pt shooter than Nash only because he’s 5% better and completely forgetting that he only shoots wide open while Steve almost always pulls up?

    James is a really really good passer in that spot but top 5?!?

    Must be the really 1st time I totally disagree with you.

  • Tfos11

    I’d score 1.091 ppp if I backed up on players like Vujacic too

  • Fazzettino

    Uh, not saying he IS a big mismatch, but that he goes there very rarely and only when the opponent is really smaller or lighter.

    He’s still an outside player, not complete at all and not aware of his strenghts, except for the very obvoius situations and decisions (no joke here :) )

  • http://www.facebook.com/corbin.smith1 Corbin Smith

    No Z-bo? weird.

  • PierceBRO

    Pierce!!!!!!!!!!!!! like come on… for the same reason as dirk your logic would suggest.

  • Bs

    After top 2 list is totaly bs

  • John

    Where do I even begin with this list? SMDH…  

    LeBron over Kobe in the post? Say whaaa? That’s RIDICULOUS. Saying that LeBron is even a top five post player is confusing. IF he had a top five post game (or even a top 15-20 post game), Miami probably wins the title.  

    You mention Aldridge, STAT and Odom before Z-Bo? That’s craaazy. First… Aldridge and STAT are more faceup four than anything else. IF you’re going to put them on the list, you might as well put Chris Bosh as well. And while Odom is a good post player, he doesn’t belong on this list. Not over the likes of a Scola (underrated)… Or an Al Jefferson.

    And to say Pau isn’t a top five post player is absurd. Before Dirk’s insane playoff run and Pau’s stinker, he was considered by many to be the best power forward in the league.

    This list is an abomination. Stats are very useful, but they don’t always tell the whole story.

  • Berniedawkins

    There’s no way in hell LBJ deserves to be on this list since he refuses to develop a post game.

  • Callmethatsauceman

    Luis Scola is an INCREDIBLE post up player. Extremely crafty and he puts his body into you.

  • fuckju

    Zbo?

  • Carl Alexander Kessen Sverdrup

    Come on, who had Pau as a better PF than Dirk? 

  • Bakim_young

    lebron doesnt event post up often and nene over scola? david west,ZACH RANDOLPH.. PAU GAOL LAMARCUS ALDRIGE

  • Dagreater1

    You know I follow your posts.  I have never disagreed as adamantly.  LeBron James in the top 5, ha!  Off the top of head and only considering the last 8 teams in the 2011 playoffs, I would rank the following about LeBron:  Dirk (we agree), Shawn Marion, Kobe, Pau Gasol, Zach Randolph (in playoffs),  Paul Pierce (talk about passing out of the double team), Joe Johnson (More moves than LeBron), Al Horford, and Josh Smith. 

    I understand that LeBron scores with a high percentage, but this is based on his size and the quality of his team.  Yes, the latter still stand when he was at Cleveland and the team was built around him.  When teams focusing on stopping LeBron in the post, they normally have success.  For example, I bet his post stats sucked from last year versus Boston and this year versus Chicago and Dallas.  I would make a blind bet on that without even looking at the data.

  • Stucgray

    Just goes to show that people believe whatever they hear. Everyone thinks LeBron sucks in the post but he obviously doesn’t. 

  • James

    Post play shouldn’t include possessions where a player backs another player up to the paint and then settles for a turnaround jumper. It definitely shouldn’t include face up ISO jumpers and layups either. I understand where you’re coming from because these plays are happening in the “post” area but I just don’t agree with it. The most skilled players in the post are Tim Duncan, Zach Randolph, Pau Gasol, Kobe Bryant and Amare Stoudemire.

  • James Clark1447

    I’m angry that I read this. Common sense trumps these misleading statistics.

    I bleed blue and yellow, but Nene on this list is an absolute joke. You can present me with any statistical anomaly you want, if you ever watched a Nuggets game, you would understand why he’s not deserving. I’d take Dwight Howard, Z-Bo, even Marc Gasol 100 out of 100 times if given the choice. He shoots such a high percentage because he’s softer than baby wipes down low, he passes too much and is terrified to get contact. He himself has stated numerous times how bad he doesn’t want to play the 5! He’s 7 feet tall 280lbs for God’s sake! Watch the game, figure out if these stats actually mean what you think they mean and THEN write an article like this. It’s just not true.

  • Cricketrules509

    He doesn’t have post moves though. He just bullies people. 

    This is like saying Chuck Hayes is a great offensive player because his Offensive rating is so high

  • http://www.kickz.com/five/?p=11990 Lockout Bullets: Rumors, Rangeleien und ein kleiner, dicker Mann mit Ballhandling | FIVE Basketball-Magazin – NBA Blog

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  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Willi-Vasieljevic/100001139600302 Willi Vasieljevic

    Thanks for the read! I’m just surprised you didn’t mention Al Jefferson – at all.
    I know, he doesn’t get to the line all that much, but isn’t he pretty good on the block with his push-shot?

  • Guest

    where’s dwight?

  • Guest

    Some of Melo’s plays were backdoor cuts

  • http://www.hothotnews.info/2011/08/09/is-dirk-nowitzki-the-best-post-player-in-the-nba/ Is Dirk Nowitzki the best post player in the NBA? | Hot Hot News

    [...] Sebastian Pruiti of NBA Playbook, as is often the case, has the answers. And the detailed post he wrote on the subject is so good, that giving away the top-five names isn’t giving anything away. To hear Sebastian tell it, and you really need to go hear Sebastian tell it, the top-five post players in the NBA are Dirk Nowitzki, Tim Duncan, Carmelo Anthony, Nene and LeBron James. [...]

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    [...] Pruiti does a fantastic breakdown of LeBron’s post game over at NBA Playbook. (He also says Dirk Nowitzki is the best post player in the game right now.) On the left block, [...]

  • http://www.truesportscore.com/nba-general-discussion-forum/59539-nba-playbook-player-skill-rankings-post-play.html#post418736 NBA Playbook: Player Skill Rankings- Post Play – True Sports Core

    [...] [...]

  • ZBoPostMoves

    Where is Zach Randolph!?

  • http://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/lebron-james-working-with-hakeem-olajuwon-to-develop-post-game/81443 LeBron James Working with Hakeem Olajuwon to Develop Post Game | Larry Brown Sports

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  • Andrew9a9

    ur an idiot if you think lebrons post game is anywhere NEAR kobes. Your future opinions are now irrelevant

  • Dill

    James would try to post up on Kidd during mismatches in this years NBA finals(NOT DOUBLE-teaming him either)… didn’t work out(didn’t work much on Marion either). If you can’t successfully post up on someone 4 inches smaller then you, you are not a good post player. If he was so successful in the post why didn’t Miami just post him up when there offense was stagnant or they needed some late game points? Cause his post-game wasn’t a viable option. Lebron is a beast, he’s nowhere near top five post games though.

  • Shandler

    Andre Miller is probably the best post up point, deserves a mention.  Also I would consider AMOUNT of post ups.  I feel like, as many have mentioned, Lebron’s stats are inflated by primarily posting up against major mismatches. As the video shows the Nets for some reason stuck Sasha Vujacic on him for a bit and basically had to post him up, and I feel many of his opportunities are of this nature.

    If someone has a lower PPP but posts up 3x as much that definitely matters.  I would’ve liked to see how many post up opportunities each player creates per 48 min.  That stat would definitely speak to ability to create position and and ability to post up regardless of defender.  It would also be contingent on team system/coaching, and teammates ability to make entry passes, but still definitely matters when evaluating post up threats.

    Also I would agree that many of the plays in Melo’s highlights seemed more like getting position on the perimeter with back to basket, then just facing up and isolating, although I think that’s more just because of your selection of plays than his actual post up proficiency because he definitely posts up a lot and causes major problems for all SF’s.

    Other players that come to mind that you didn’t mention but several commentors have: Z-Bo, Scola, Aldridge, Al Jefferson

    Others that not even commentors mentioned: David West, can’t think of any other haha

  • DC

    The overall confusion by many of the commenters here (and likely, readers) is with the term “post play”.  Hence, why everybody is wondering why the likes of Scola, Z-Bo, and Al Jefferson are left out.  

    To reduce this confusion, first consider that the term “post play” here does not refer to only the low-post.  Nor does it refer to the beauty and variety of low-post moves or the footwork involved to do those moves.  In fact, Sebastien states his motivations reasonably at the beginning:

    “This skill ranking encompasses post play in it’s entirety, from moves, to ability to handle double teams, and everything else involved.”

    So this is an all-encompassing view of the term.  That’s why Sebastien chooses to use advanced stats and metrics to make his case – by his definition here, post players create the most points off of each post play situation not simply by creating their own shot, but also by taking advantage of mismatches (like Melo sealing off a smaller defender to receive a lob pass for a simple lay in), playing both blocks (like Nene), and creating points by assisting (as Lebron and Tim Duncan does).  

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1417584042 Ronnys Gonzalez

    KG? Z-Bo? Luis scola? al jefferson? LaMarcus Aldridge? Elton Brand? where are this guys? better post player in the league and you dont call KG are you kidding me?. and lebron over kobe in the post? i totally disagreed with this list

  • Pat

    How can James be Top 5 when he barely plays in the post? That’s like calling someone who shoots 2 3′s a game one of the league’s best. LeBron usually only posts up when he has a HUGE mismatch, like when a point guard is on him, when he can bully his way to a basket. Kobe, meanwhile, uses an array of moves to fluster even bigger defenders. Think Hakeem on Young Shaq.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post?id=9364

    He goes to the post 2.9 times a game, compared to Kobe’s 8.1 And Kobe has a slightly higher efficiency at 1.058 compared to LeBron’s 1.052.

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